In this episode, Jessie and Chris met with PMA and FGSS Senior Davis Norma Ouriel to discuss her time here at Cornell, her work as an intimacy coordinator and performer in the Schwartz Center, as well as her future plans post graduation.
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Transcript
Chris Christensen 00:00
Hello and welcome to episode 67 of the PMA podcast. In this episode, Jessie and I met with PMA and FGSS Senior Davis Norma Ouriel to discuss her time here at Cornell, her work as an intimacy coordinator and performer in the Schwartz Center, as well as her future plans post graduation. Oh my goodness, finally, finally, Davis, we've got you here in the studio. It's only taken us about two years to make this happen.
Davis Ouriel 00:40
Well, I've learned a lot since then, so I'm glad I'm talking now.
Chris Christensen 00:44
Cool, yeah. And I guess to get well, Jessie, welcome back as always. Here we are sitting in the podcast studio. I guess to get started, tell us who you are, Davis, aside from your first name.
Davis Ouriel 00:57
My name, listener, is Davis Norma Ouriel, I am a senior in performing and media arts and Feminist Gender and Sexuality Studies here in the College of Arts and Sciences at Cornell University. I am an intimacy coordinator and a screenwriter, and I have lived a life as a performer, and I'm happy to introduce what an intimacy coordinator is.
Chris Christensen 00:57
Yeah, we could get that a little bit later.
Davis Ouriel 01:25
Totally, absolutely. And I also call myself a clown and a feminist killjoy, and I think those go hand in hand.
Chris Christensen 01:34
It's- I'm not when I say it's funny when you say that you've lived a life, it's like you've not even lived a full life yet, there's so much more to go.
Davis Ouriel 01:43
There is, there is.
Chris Christensen 01:45
And this is your, this is your last semester.
Davis Ouriel 01:47
This is it's going bye, bye. I'm continuing my education with an MFA in screenwriting elsewhere, unfortunately, we don't offer that. One day, one day, one day for PMA. But I'm super jazzed. I have loved, I have loved my interdisciplinary arts education at Cornell. So excited to continue it.
Chris Christensen 02:12
Nice.
Jessie Jia 02:12
Yeah, was pm made the major day you came in Cornell with?
Davis Ouriel 02:16
I believe I indicated it as my major of interest on my college app, but I came in undecided ultimately, and I think I was looking for a portal back into performing since I had abandoned it about halfway through High School, and ultimately a Media Studies degree with performing arts training was what I was looking for, and I ended up pursuing till the very day, and just making some new discoveries along that way. So.
Chris Christensen 02:54
You said you abandoned it in high school. Why?
Davis Ouriel 02:58
Woo! Um, I grew up in West Los Angeles, which, for the viewer that is familiar with mainstream media interpretations, like at the Victorious High School. I grew up like I benefited from the elite high school to elite college pipeline that was my private, well endowed arts, arts-based High School in Los Angeles to Cornell. I think that I wanted to, I needed to just come home every day and survive in high school, and I felt a little bit under resourced and burnt out as a result. So I was very scared of writing and continuing to perform for a lack of identification, I guess, with with maybe musical theater, which is like such a bulk of the theater community and culture in high school, that's not to say I didn't find my people who I love and that I didn't enjoy. I did not enjoy watching and performing, but yeah, I think I didn't, I didn't really empower myself at the time to like, keep going with it. I also have an interesting, I have an interesting, how would I say? I have an interesting back story between I grew up between Los Angeles and Huntsville, Alabama, making Cornell in upstate New York like kind of a third, third party that I was able to escape to. And so I carry, I think I, I've always carried around an identity that makes, makes me feel, feel very multifaceted, and like reticent to to identify immediately with what's laid out in front of me, which is a very abstract way of saying, like, I'm still I was, I was waiting to find my people in a collaborative arts and interdisciplinary art space. Yeah.
Chris Christensen 05:17
Okay,
Davis Ouriel 05:18
Cool.
Chris Christensen 05:19
Thank you.
Jessie Jia 05:19
Yeah. And how was like first entering Performing Arts? Like, how did you got back to-
Davis Ouriel 05:27
I was on a walk the summer before my sophomore year, which is when you have to declare your major as an arts and sciences student. And I was on a walk in my neighborhood in Huntsville, Alabama, in this dreadful summer heat and humidity, and I started thinking about classes that I had liked taking in my freshman year, one of which was a kids pop culture class where we thought of children and children's media as like very impactful and and has the capacity to like, be progressive and recognize kids like as folks with a lot of agency. And that was in the feminist Gender Sexuality Studies program. And I also thought, what PMA class had I taken at that time? I thought of like the array of PMA experiences that I had freshman year that may have even been cross listed in terms of Media Studies and performing at festival 24 for the first time. And I was thinking, what would be like a combination of two majors that I that were PMA and feminist, Gender and Sexuality Studies, like, what? How would that manifest itself in a career? And then I thought, Oh, who's the person that does like kisses in film and theater. Like, who does that? Is that real? Am I making that up? And I went home and I researched it as if I had invented intimacy coordination myself. And I thought that is who I want to be. That is like the perfect crossover of like, theory and practice. And so, in a way, intimacy coordination, which for the listener that doesn't know what it is, it's the process of simulating physical intimacy and or not simulating, physical intimacy and nudity, including, but not limited to simulated sex for film and TV and theater. I that was my way into creating meaningful storytelling, because from there, that was a lens where I could, like, kind of use feminist theory to recognize everyone in the rehearsal room, including, you know, a past version of myself that didn't feel empowered or felt like I was being left behind, to empower them to see themselves as like having having voice, having agency. So weirdly, coming from sounds like I'm coming from a very theoretical level, I swear. I've been in I've been in rehearsal spaces before. I do things too. I don't just think about them. Um, I, I came to screenwriting through that lens, because it was also a meditation on all the media that I had seen before. That kind of made me reimagine what, um, what a good, uh, how, how film and television like touched me as a viewer. Those shows were like Sex Education on Netflix, and I May Destroy You on HBO Max and Normal People on Hulu, and these were all stories that didn't just have sex scenes or or romance on screen that would make you like recoil or feel feel objectified, maybe as like a viewer in a marginalized body, but proved to tell a story through choreography and intense character studies. And so I also, on that same day, found out that they had the same intimacy coordinator who's like this flax inherit British woman named Ita O'Brien, who brought a lot of visibility to the film, to the field. Excuse me. So that's my long that's my long winded answer. I'll stop apologizing.
Chris Christensen 09:41
Oh my gosh, yeah. No, no need to apologize. So you said that you have been involved as well. So what was your first production here at Cornell?
Davis Ouriel 09:50
So as I said, I was in a Festival 24 the that I overslept for, my first semester.
Chris Christensen 10:04
Well, the start time for Festival 24 is, like four, 5am.
Davis Ouriel 10:08
Yeah, yeah, it is.
Chris Christensen 10:09
So that's okay.
Davis Ouriel 10:11
I woke up at the 6am call time that I was supposed to be there because my fan had drowned out my alarm. And so, you know, my heart's racing. They're asking if I'm still if I'm still committed, if I'm still in. This is like my first gig. I mean, this is going to get me an actor's equity card for all I know. And so I'm racing there to perform for like the 24 hour place festival, or at least, like my 12 hour share of it. And yeah, I met folks that I would later like go on to know personally and academically and as my cast mates in certain shows. So it was a really fun introduction.
Chris Christensen 10:56
Did you have something you wanted to ask Jessie?
Jessie Jia 10:58
Oh, yeah, I just wanted to say you're amazing at like, Katherine's shoot for intimacy coordinator and also Orlando's Gifts. She's also, Davis is also playing a role. I forgot your character name, but it's really funny.
Davis Ouriel 11:13
Yeah, yeah. Orlando's gift was an ensemble-based show surrounding the life and trials of Virginia Woolf as she does not know whether or not to keep to go on as a result of being- do not say the word constipated, Davis. Or does not know whether or not to go on as a result of like being inable to write. And so I was part of that ensemble. I played Nick Green with who, yeah, it's an interesting show to explain. I think, I think I can leave it. I can leave it at that synopsis I played. I played a bunch of different roles, including some of the words as well. I'm sure it's been re- I'm sure Orlando's gift has been brought up in prior episodes.
Chris Christensen 12:06
Oh yes.
Davis Ouriel 12:07
The impact of that show. It was kind of like a senior capstone project for many of us, and for those of us that wanted to work with David Feldshuh. So, yeah, yeah, that was a great that was a great time. Were you involved in Risley at all, any of the productions over there? I lived there my freshman year. I actually didn't start working with the theater clubs like Cog Dog and Melodramatics until my sophomore year, and that was my first theatrical gig as an intimacy director. That's how we like qualify the theatrical work from the film and TV work. Supposedly, I think intimacy coordination is like a good umbrella term, but sometimes it's separated into like intimacy choreographer and director for theater and intimacy coordinator for film and TV. But yeah, I worked on a production of Chicago there. Yeah.
Jessie Jia 13:12
Amazing. Sounds like you have, like, a lot of different roles. How's like your feeling of balancing or choosing what role? Yeah, like an actor and also intimacy coordinator.
Davis Ouriel 13:21
Yeah, yeah. It's I think that I have, I think I have a hard time talking about myself in a succinct way as a result of that, because I feel like I I straddle so many different disciplines that, like, I want to make people aware of right now as an MFA, as, as an MFA applicant, for example, like I really had to hammer home, like I am prioritizing writing, even though intimacy coordination was like a big part of my personal statement. And as I tried to explain, like why I do what I do, or why I write what I write. So I but at the same time, intimacy coordination is as a result of it being a new field and a lack of infrastructure at most universities, in most theater departments, to say, like, this is not just a Cornell problem, it's kind of, it's kind of like, it's that the industry is also trying to figure out where intimacy coordinators stand. The unionized industry. SAG AFTRA is trying to figure that out as well. So there's this widespread problem of like, we don't have enough intimacy coordinators and or we don't know when to use them. So I've I see it as a necessary role directors that I work with in student clubs, as well as a few departmental productions, thesis work, see it as an instrumental role in order to, like, telling, telling the stories that need to be told in their plays or films. So I find myself prioritizing. I found I found myself prioritizing intimacy coordination for a long time as an undergrad. Yeah and still do up until, up until I'm gone.
Jessie Jia 15:23
That sounds amazing. Okay, should I do you want to ask the next question?
Chris Christensen 15:28
Yeah. You know, I actually want to take a step back. Because when you introduced yourself, you mentioned clown.
Davis Ouriel 15:35
Yeah.
Chris Christensen 15:36
I'm really curious about that.
Davis Ouriel 15:38
This is something I call myself as a means to realize my my identity is one. You know, I don't think, unless it's behind my back, I don't think people are going to call me a clown to my face, but I'd like to be perceived as one. So clown is as I, as I see it. It's still pretty elusive. It's a it's like a form of theatrical comedy that just requires you be your purest self, like most unembarrassed self ever. And in fact, it was in like, there's a big scene in LA in New York that you only really know it when you see it. And I saw it a lot during a summer in Los Angeles this past year. And I just really wanted to be on stage with those folks. It could be anything. It really could be anything. It's it kind of is like a it could qualify a form of stand up or or improv comedy or puppetry. Even I saw, I saw some clown with puppets. It's definitely not big red wig, big red nose, honk honk clown, though it can be meant to include that. So yeah, I think of myself as a clown in conversation with other people, and I'd like people to know me even as an intimacy coordinator, which has this reputation of being like the safety police, which is misconstrued because we can't, we can't be everything all at once, and there's so much that, anyways, it's, it's an undue burden on on the individual, and also for directors to put someone in a choreography role and then think that they're going to, like fix problems of power dynamics, whereas we are aware of that, and that's part of my training and practice is to bring awareness to traditionally problematic like ways of relating to actors and liaising between them and asking them to do choreography. Of course, I lost my train of thought with how that relates to clowning. But I wouldn't want people to understand is that clowning is as vulnerable as intimacy coordination, and I'd like, I'd like, to be known as both, in order to kind of restructure people's perceptions of like, what happens, especially if they don't know me cause trust is a big part of the work, of the intimacy coordination work. What happens when I walk into a room like, what am I expecting of people? And the truth is, I'm not. I'm not expecting you to bring anything, or even necessarily your most professional self. I want to help you do, do the work. There is, I will say, let me disclaim a little bit. I don't speak for all intimacy coordinators. And I am only I am only 22 which is not to denigrate myself, but to say that I I kind of present one one side, limited by two and a half years of experience, and mostly in the undergraduate like theater and film realm. So, yeah, yeah. Did I answer that?
Chris Christensen 19:11
Yes, you did.
Davis Ouriel 19:12
I think most people should figure out what clowning is by themselves, like I did, and then, and then we'll talk, and we'll create, like, a more descriptive definition. Yeah.
Jessie Jia 19:23
Yeah, that sounds great. Um, can you share more about the process of intimacy coordinating on, like a movie set or like a theatrical production? Do you, were you involve, like, in pre production with directors, and what are, like, some things you do on set to make the actors feel comfortable?
Davis Ouriel 19:39
Yeah absolutely, absolutely I would love to. I also, yeah, I'll get into it. So intimacy coordination, in its essence, is a liaison role between actors and directors. It doesn't mean that you're not touching other departments, like costumes and oh, what else? What else? Props and producers and legality, when that's relevant. But, but, but, but we we start in the pre production process if you are given the privilege, because sometimes you just drop into a tech rehearsal when a director is like, I need you to come in and choreograph this we haven't quite figured this out yet. Or we this is presenting a new artistic, creative challenge for us this scene. And so we come in, I what I usually start with, if I've been invited to work on a pre production timeline with a director, is a script breakdown of what you know, they consider, and I consider all the intimate scenes of a script. And again, like I said, this is not limited. It includes, but is not limited to simulated sex. So I have, I have choreographed many more kisses than I have what we think of as like a sex scene in mainstream media. And so, so, so, so we go through it's a lot of asking the right questions, asking better questions. To quote a premier intimacy coordinator named Chelsea Pace, who founded Theatrical Intimacy Education, which is a great resource, where I started with my intimacy coordination workshops, and then cohort-based training at her current her current company that she also founded, called Open Intimacy Creatives. And so, oh, what did she just say? What did I say? We ask better questions, not the right questions. We're just trying to get as much description as possible for a director's vision, even before we discuss with actors, just as like a designer would or a stunt coordinator would, those are good analogies for the work that we do, because they are creative roles as much as they are advocate roles. And then what will happen, whatever that pre-production conversation looks like. I've been in conver- I've been in conversations with theatrical and film directors where, like they're very clear headed or or the work is intimidating, especially working with other undergraduates like you have pre-existing relationships with your actors. That might make you hesitant to be so descriptive about what you would like to see. And bringing you can't be everything for everyone, but asking better questions will sometimes like lead to lead to more description, or to, like, get a confirmation: okay, so you would like me to take a choreographic or creative lead, which is not the same for every set. And then my favorite part, which is getting in the room with actors. We it's, it's sometimes a directorial role, and it is sometimes like a very supportive role where I, I am there to support the director in their language that they used. And, yeah, yeah, there's so many variable forms, like, of how the process will take place. So let me I'm gonna, I'll scale it back for right now, before I get too ahead of myself.
Chris Christensen 23:45
Okay. You mentioned props earlier.
Davis Ouriel 23:50
Totally.
Chris Christensen 23:50
You've done something behind the scenes while here at PMA. What did is that, is that true, or would I be inaccurate in that?
Davis Ouriel 23:58
As in, as intimacy coordinator?
Chris Christensen 24:01
No, I was going to shift gears a little bit in thinking about your time here at Cornell, aside from classes that you've taken that have been specifically about being on stage or script writing that sort of thing, what sort of things have you done while you were here that might involve like you're working in the scene shop, working on props, doing- have you done any lighting, sound, any of those things?
Davis Ouriel 24:22
You know what? No, I, I have. We have a very holistic education at PMA. So I have taken, I have taken classes such as, like our production lab, which is like in theatrical like production fluency. I have a production design class where we start to think about, like mise en scene and all, all, all the French terminology. And for, for props, specifically I have enjoyed, I did take my production lab, like last year.
Chris Christensen 24:23
Okay.
Davis Ouriel 24:23
And that was working the scene shop with Tim and Fritz and Savannah, and that was absolutely a wonderful time, absolutely wonderful time. I'm not the most handy person to have around, love the conversations that come out of an extended, extended time in the scene shop. But-
Chris Christensen 25:22
Why is that?
Davis Ouriel 25:23
Why am I not the most handy person? Um, probably, probably a lack of confidence from the outside. I think, I think, um, I, I associated a little. I love, I love vision. I love having strong, creative vision to get people to where they need to go. But I can't do the math. I can't do the math. I can't I can't draw straight lines or measure very effectively. Those are, those are valuable takeaways from my production lab, and not for lack of trying, or for lack of help, again, maybe for lack of empowerment. This is a recurring theme, its a recurring theme, but I would definitely encourage production, or I'm sorry, creative-based folks, to get in behind the scenes as well, because I think it is, it's definitely a learning curve with my intimacy work, for example, like talking with costumes, figuring out if furniture is load-bearing or accessible like to do choreography on. That is that's been a learning curve each time for like, the specific needs of each production that I've worked on as an intimacy coordinator, in order to speak. I think everyone should speak the same language in the theater. I think that that's the most effective way. So I'm very grateful for those opportunities to learn how to do that.
Chris Christensen 26:49
Okay.
Davis Ouriel 26:49
Yeah.
Chris Christensen 26:49
Thanks.
Jessie Jia 26:50
Yeah, this sounds awesome. How do you see yourself like balancing learning and academics versus like applying them in the project and theatrical productions?
Davis Ouriel 27:01
Well, as a screenwriter, I say that feminist theory is in everything I do as someone who felt more comfortable like engaging with theory as a way- media studies, theory, for example, as a way into practice, as someone who does also love to write about the media that they love to watch, or even write to justify the media that they want to create. I think, I think the balance, like has to be equitable. I'm also someone who has the privilege of, like being a humanities and arts major, so I'm not splitting my time in two worlds that insist on being completely separate, like I know some of my friends in STEM fields compete with and I so I'm really along for the ride in terms of, like, how can I apply what I'm learning in my Feminist Gender and Sexuality Studies, like undergrad, some senior seminar, to the art that I'm making. And one of my professors that I really look up to in terms of how she combines theory and artistic practice and even prioritizes art making as like a way of knowing as a way of being a scholar in your selected discipline is Professor Mendi Obadike. Yeah.
Jessie Jia 28:38
Oh, have you taken- is that a class that you've taken?
Davis Ouriel 28:40
Yeah, I'm taking critical listening strategies, which is a history of sound art class and Professor Obadike talks that was like that was one of the class's commandments is that we will make art as a way of knowing what we did not know before. And just today, we're over midway through the semester-am I gonna burp? Hold on. No, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. And I would have let it happen, but I we're just today, we're reading like some quote, unquote, like cold theory about how to talk about the ways that we listen to sounds in our everyday lives, in in media that sound has been deliberately designed for. And I feel so comforted. I feel I feel comforted by everything Professor Obadike does. She's a she's a great professor and mentor, but I feel so comforted that we got comfortable with ourselves in talking about the ways that we listen to things, and in fact, listening to those things. Listening to a lot of creative work, and even in some instances, creating scores. Um, to present in class over, like, beginning with the theory and ending with the theory and being bogged down to use her words by and trapped in my words, um, by what, by what one scholar says prescribes, and like, how we should talk about art and stuff. Yeah.
Chris Christensen 30:23
Could you restate the commandment again? I was really taken with that.
Davis Ouriel 30:27
Oh, I'm glad. The commandment is paraphrased by Davis. Is that you shall, you shalt prioritize art-making as a way of scholarship. Boom.
Chris Christensen 30:47
And I think you said to know something you don't already know.
Davis Ouriel 30:50
This is, yeah, and this is directly from Professor Obadike, like because we we have to know by doing. We can't. We can't know unless we do. Yeah.
Chris Christensen 31:03
Is that finding a space in terms of practice, existing in your day to day life is well outside of what's happening in the walls of PMA or-
Davis Ouriel 31:15
Totally, I was really scared of writing as I touched on, and I did not know how much I had to write about or what I needed to process through, strangely the feature screenplay until I started doing it, but I also needed tools to go there. So something that I really appreciated alongside my media studies classes and alongside my media studies classes, is, was my first advanced screenwriting seminar with Professor Juanie Fowlkes who used to teach a screenwriting professor. It was called Love is a Character, and we wrote romantic comedy features, not necessarily combinations say that the writing the romantic feature. And I that was my first opportunity to write a screenplay, and I wrote a 90 page queer coming of age rom com, which, yeah, was I definitely learned a lot that I did not learn before- we all did. We were we were just encouraged to go there. We were thrown in the deep end, not for lack of guidance and mentorship and meaningful collaboration. It was just awesome. I love, I love, kind of having my hand held to the deep end of the pools to continue along this metaphor and before being pushed in. So, yeah.
Jessie Jia 32:52
Yeah. Have you worked on other project or any ongoing project that you are writing about?
Davis Ouriel 32:57
Yeah, so I wrote this feature, which is called "No Shot." I said it's a queer coming of age dramedy, rom-com, I guess. How can it be that many genres? We don't know, but you'll have to see it someday. Which is about loosely autobiographical, let me say that, but not literally. It is about a a smart alecky, kind of like frenetic outsider at a high school for the Hollywood elite who turns on the charm for the most popular boy in her grade in order to get close to his award winning mother. Yeah, that's, that's the goal. Those are the stakes. That's the hero, etc. So yeah. And then underneath, underneath, that very punchy logline, I hope, is a, is a story of, like discovering you know your co-dependent best friend is like, maybe something more that you weren't taught to see, see, like female friendships as but are in a way that that is empowering to you as you know, a like being as someone in a marginalized body. Yeah, that's something that I've written, and I think, considering that I wrote it last year, I don't think it's done yet. I think that as many people as I show it to, I'm always like generating new ideas for where to take it, and especially as a lot of the media that I enjoy, like, I'm seeing new kinds of queer relationships, either queer, literally in in in sexuality, in the category of sexuality, or like queer, as in, like, making strange, deviant relationships. Um, so I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm really interested in, like, taking that to in revising and rewriting, because I think that's most of what writing is.
Jessie Jia 35:11
Wow sorry, you can-
Davis Ouriel 35:13
No, go ahead.
Jessie Jia 35:14
Are you gonna like, um, try to make it or like, I'll be really excited to, like, learn more about it.
Davis Ouriel 35:20
Yeah, I think I really enjoy people reading it right now, since I'm going, I and I think I think it's weird. I think at this stage in life that I'm at, I'm not expecting it to be made as like a full feature movie, but I don't want to disempower anyone who wants to pursue that at the age of 22. I also believe in, like using my artistic community and like us building something together that everyone has a role in, either like my folks here at PMA. In the future, and, you know, whatever cohort I discover in the next few years, I believe in, like, making proof of concepts right in order to get that work seen, and, and, and for someone to champion it, to, like, take it to the next level. Yeah.
Chris Christensen 36:21
Have you talked to other folks about it? Kind of dropped the bug in their ear and all?
Davis Ouriel 36:24
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I, and there's also so many like, I'm, I've been encouraged to write down all my log lines and have, like, an a running list of them by my screenwriting mentor and I, so I I'm and also not to be insecure, as if, like, they're going to be stolen or if they have to be made real right away. But it definitely does, like, heighten the stakes and and makes me rethink the urgency of some projects when I see that, like my friends are excited about them, or if talking to them, I realized, like, oh my gosh, I need to. I need you to. We need to bring this, we need to bring this to life. So something that I'm really excited about the next few years is like putting more of a production lens on my writing seizing- seeing as I'm just, I, I'm still like a baby in this film writing world, yeah.
Chris Christensen 37:21
Are you collaborating with others? Are you taking the time to say, hand that to somebody else and say, do you want to do something with this? Shift it up a little bit, maybe we can kind of work on this?
Davis Ouriel 37:32
For sure. Um, me and, um, I mean, everyone, everyone in this department, is so, so driven to make the most of the resources that they have. And I really relate to my friends that also didn't find out until the 11th hour that they wanted to be artists. And in fact, there's so much time, so that's kind of why we're pursuing it post grad. But an alum, alumna of many productions here in PMA, Ruby Ricisak, is someone that like I still stay in contact with. She just graduated and moved to Seattle to pursue acting, and is someone that like I will have in my life as a collaborator. She's kind of the um, oh, this is such a queer white woman metaphor to make, but like, she's kind of the Saoirse to my Greta. Does that make sense? You know, I'm making a Lady Bird reference. So yeah, they'll, they'll write an act together. Yeah.
Chris Christensen 38:40
Nice.
Davis Ouriel 38:41
Yeah.
Jessie Jia 38:41
Yeah, that sounds amazing. Would you have any advice that you want to offer to incoming PMA students?
Davis Ouriel 38:48
Totally, no one is going to make it happen except you. And that can be that can be soul crushing if you don't take the steps to like, follow what, or if you feel overwhelmed by all the possibility there is to make make your art happen. But it's also deeply empowering in that you do not have to you do not have to feel like oppressed by the other ways that people make art, you can kind of discover your own path. And when I say the other ways that people make art, I mean, like, you know, your imagination of like, the connections that people have, or the resources, financial or creative that people have, and, yeah, that's something I've been thinking about a lot as I kind of decide what I want the next chapter of my life to look like.
Chris Christensen 39:46
Speaking of that next chapter, do you see yourself more I say behind the typewriter, but it's not the typewriter behind the keyboard-
Davis Ouriel 39:53
I wish it was a typewriter.
Chris Christensen 39:53
Or more on stage or a mix? Behind the, behind the cam- or in front of the camera, any of those things.
Davis Ouriel 40:00
Really really interesting is I kind of choose an MFA program, not solely based on but with a really keen eye on what kind of opportunities I'll have to develop my comedy, so to speak, it's not very salient in this podcast. I'm not really clowning right now. I'm kind of using $10 words and throwing everything I had prepared out the window, but I I really, I really, would like to make time for developing my comedy shtick in the avant garde theaters like that do clown that do sketch and stand up and improv where I go, so that I can, yes, allow that to inform my writing, but also bring visibility to my writing, to like to perform alongside being a writer and to have your work seen in that way, I think does get it read, maybe I make that generalization as a 22 year old who doesn't know nothing from nothing yet. But I'm, I'm excited to I'm excited to be marketable in that way. Yeah.
Chris Christensen 40:46
Do you do stand up now?
Davis Ouriel 41:25
I tried it in LA last summer. And open mics are really, it's really, it's really, really a a void that you cannot see yourself through to the other side if you're spending two months living at your uncle's house. So I think I did about three, and then when I got nervous, I noticed that I would like scream sometimes, and I did not like seeing that part of myself. So stand up specifically I'm not sure if I will return to but there, there-
Chris Christensen 42:09
Was it, sorry. Was it because of the feeling in LA and the pressure in those spaces? Was it just the act of doing stand up, in and of itself, combination of things?
Davis Ouriel 42:21
There is something about seeing a lot of folks older than you, and this isn't it's not that they were older than me that scared me, like, "oh my god they're still doing open mics." No, not at all. It's just that that was their craft, like, that was where that was, they were, and they were good at it, at expressing themselves in like a stand up format that was it was rehearsed, it was polished, and I felt like I didn't have time to incubate in that way. And I think I really what I'm most looking forward to, going back to your question about what, what does this next chapter look like as a performer, and balancing that with writing is I really want to be taught in that way, like I have missed kind of a formal education. Now, will I pay $600 for a UCB class? I'm not sure, but don't quote me on that. I'd love to have that kind of money. I would love to have some kind of formal education in comedy. And I think folks are missing that or or into believing that the formal education is like professional development and like how to market yourself. But the formal education also doesn't have to look like a pay per class scheme rather like I want. I want a cohort like that is what I most want. I would like to find my people that I can like, write with, perform in front of, take feedback from, and trust the notes. So yeah, I'm looking. I'm looking to find even more folks.
Chris Christensen 44:05
Okay, I'm gonna add to that. So do you have something worked up currently that you could do a stand up? And the reason I asked that is, I don't know if you know, but there are open mics here in Ithaca.
Davis Ouriel 44:18
Totally.
Chris Christensen 44:19
I just wondered if you'd investigated that at all, where you thought, you know, what, the stakes feel a little bit lower, going out in Ithaca and doing that in a little smaller space. Or is it-
Davis Ouriel 44:27
You're so right. I'm really looking to be part of an ensemble. I want to say that, I'm looking to be part of a clown or improv troupe in the next iteration of-
Chris Christensen 44:35
Gotcha.
Davis Ouriel 44:36
Um Davis. I yeah, but there that's also the other thing is, like it stand up is really interesting. I can't quite understand yet if it is a if it is based on your relationship with the audience. Or your relationship with your material, if that makes sense? And so that's kind of I need. I need someone to work it out for me. Like I need, like screenwriting, right? It's so it's so inclusive and accessible because you were given, you were given, a formula that then you can find a creative way to fulfill and stand up is so loose and intimidating, and it's just you up there, and then you find yourself screaming on stage, or singing Chappell Roan in some kind of I can't remember, did I do a funny voice, or did I just sing the wrong words. That was one of the open mics that I felt particularly good about. If that gives you any indication- Oh, good you felt- of my relationship with the material. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah definitely. I would like to, I like the theaters that are like a converted and I don't know if this is what you're talking about, with lower stakes, Ithaca. Ithaca venues for open mics. But I like the theaters that are, like, converted, but still, obviously basements, as opposed to, like, something that has, like a marquee that says, like, Haha Theater, best comedy in town. You like free comedy?
Chris Christensen 45:48
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at yeah, yeah.
Davis Ouriel 46:22
Yeah. Okay.
Jessie Jia 46:22
Yeah. That sounds good. Any other question that we might have missed, or any other things you want to share?
Davis Ouriel 46:22
Because that reminds- that just reminds me of, like, cracking cracking jokes with my friends, or, like, staging or or jamming in, like a co op, etc, yeah. Oh, boy, oh, boy. I don't know. I don't know. Is there anything that I should clarify that maybe was muddled in abstraction or metaphor?
Jessie Jia 46:54
You were awesome yeah.
Chris Christensen 46:56
Well, you're, you're sort of, where are we looking at? Dragon day is that this coming Friday?
Davis Ouriel 47:03
Ye- I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Chris Christensen 47:04
Is that true?
Davis Ouriel 47:05
I thought that was when we, like, the last day of classes-
Chris Christensen 47:08
And then spring break is next week.
Davis Ouriel 47:09
Yes, spring break is next week.
Chris Christensen 47:11
So here we are at the mid to slightly past midpoint of this are we at the midpoint of the semester now? And so then beyond that, sort of the final ride to the the end of your final semester here at Cornell. Are there things that you know you just want to share before you you know this could be like the last recording that we get of you here- what kind of really important things do you want to share?
Davis Ouriel 47:37
Something that's really important- No, this is, this is a great question. Yes, I did miss something. Something that I would love is to that I haven't done is create a legacy for intimacy coordination for our PMA department and for the student clubs that benefit from those resources. So I really think I don't know if students are the best or most effective way to have intimacy coordination on a project. I can tell you, like anecdotal benefits that I've I've felt, and that my friends have felt, but only in the rehearsal room and on set, in the classroom, I can tell you that the work is like an ongoing conversation that will never be finished, and there's not necessarily a right way to do it, but it would be awesome if we did have faculty resources, which is hard to demand, like we are not a BFA program, right? Like we are not a conservatory that trains like Soul theater makers, and that's something awesome about our department, is that everyone plays in the same sandbox. And you know, we're not going to focus all our all our time and energy into one into one spot, but I can say that there would be a lot less panic and intimidation across cross productions and students and maybe even and and definitely the viewers, if we could, like, point to someone in the department or or, like, a common resource that you know, Ithaca productions share as like, okay, we we have options. Like, for who we want to come in and help us stage this. So I am like, I'm not asking for myself to leave a legacy. And to be honest, I haven't, like, I haven't been as organized, you know, with like, five weeks left of class, in order to create that standing infrastructure. That will still be here after I leave. And I also don't think it's a problem. I think there have been plenty of people interested. I just I would like, I would like the work to be seen as like something that is necessary and and important enough to to, like, make a mainstay. Yeah.
Chris Christensen 47:39
To put you right on the spot. All right. Thank you.
Jessie Jia 50:28
Thank you.
Chris Christensen 50:30
Davis, wishing you all the best. As things roll towards the conclusion of your time here at Cornell, and we look forward to maybe we have you back on next year or sometime there after you reach out to us and let us know what you're doing, we'll call you in.
Davis Ouriel 50:45
I will be on the podcast much more coherent, guys.
Chris Christensen 50:48
I think you were just fine.
Davis Ouriel 50:49
Thank you.
Chris Christensen 50:50
Absolutely. Thanks.
